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116923-can-we-please-please-please-remove-the-primes-from-quest-areas
Content ---- I'm completely against this. I like having the primes around. Whenever I'm actually solo, they provide something for me to worry about, a thing that I know I shouldn't roll into or sprint into. When I'm not, they provide a way to blast through quests faster than when I was playing solo. This game isn't supposed to be easy; I'm much happier with the primes around just as they are. Still, they have a very small aggro radius. You almost have to walk straight into them to aggro them. I've never seen one blocking me from a quest objective. Specifically what quest and mob are you talking about? | |} ---- ---- ---- While I'm certain OMT meant "blow them all away" ( :lol:), his suggestion is a good one. If you're fighting several ranged mobs that aren't close together, run away from them until they start to chase (and without aggroing anything else). More often than not, they will clump up so that you can then turn around and AoE them down. You can also often use line of sight to clump enemies up in a similar way. I disagree with removing Primes. | |} ---- ---- Yes, primes are the baddies with the interrupt armor and the red ink wash. | |} ---- Ok yeah, then I've never run into one that prevented me from questing on any character. | |} ---- As usual, you're better off reporting the specific Prime and the specific quest you had trouble with. Either there's an alternate way to do it you don't know and someone can tell you, or the dev missed a bad spawn and can fix it. You're FAR more likely to get a positive change to specific problems, than to win a general campaign to have something removed entirely. There are plenty of ways to force ranged enemies to run to you. If you're (again) specific, people can give you tips for different classes. | |} ---- I base my ability to solo something on whether it kills me before I can knock off 33% of its life. If I can manage that, I can manage 100% I just have to be better. | |} ---- ---- ---- If you encounter a prime that is directly ontop of or in a place they should not be report it. They're really not an issue and from my experience even if they're close to an objective their aggro range is less of that than a regular monster making it easy to sneak by in most cases if I feel I can't/don't want to solo it. In regard to your second question. What class are you? IF you're warrior just use grapple and you should be fine and stalkers have a kind of aoe pull as well if i recall too... | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- To sum this up, MMOs may not be your cup of tea, which is fine. The aspects you are talking about are what make the game interesting and make you use your brain. Use those problem solving skills from 2nd grade to figure out different ways to do things. Why should the devs change an entire genre to cater to one individual when literally thousands of others can do the same thing with ease? | |} ---- "Suck on my best men, vault hunter!" "I promise you... that sounded a lot better in your head." :D But anyway, this has annoyed me since launch, and sadly, it doesn't seem to be anything we can do about it. This isn't a question about difficulty or anything like that. It's a question about why the primes are camping right on top of quest objectives, making them impossible. The latest one was a terminal I had to hack in Galeras, but it's not possible as there's a prime right next to it. I can try to lure it away, but there are so many other enemies there with a huge aggro-radius that I get shot to pieces if I move too much. Those enemies aren't really a problem alone, but with a prime after me? Not gonna happen. | |} ---- This is exactly what I am talking about, and I'm glad I'm not the only one with this issue. While being very, very, very careful might work, it's not fun at all. | |} ---- Sigh... I have one issue is one of the two dozen games I've played in this genre, and now the whole genre isn't for me? What part of "I love the game" was too hard for you to understand? Not meant as an insult, just as a stupid answer to stupid comment. | |} ---- You speak as if elites/primes/strongs don't exist in other games. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- Oh, there's a joke somewhere. I just can't find it. Halp? | |} ---- This post does seem a bit rude and harsh, but on Exile side. I never seen this issue, also. Worse case, we have megaservers so most likely you can ask for help if all else fails. Since quest areas are..well everywhere and mobs tend to be randomly generated for easy coding. This isn't changing since A)not really an issue, B)Can easily be resolved if ask for help or see if the item you need is elsewhere in the area. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- You're going to have to be more specific, because I've run Galeras a half dozen times since Primes were added and never encountered that. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- That's what I was thinking, stand as far away from the farthest point and mouse click it. Primes generally have low aggro range. | |} ---- His aggro radius shouldn't be anywhere near the far side of that cart of barrels. That should be relatively easy. You don't even have to fight the prime, just whatever's on the side of that item. Primes won't aggro you even from that distance. They have exceptionally low aggro radiuses. | |} ---- ---- Yeah, this is one instance. The prime is blocking the path up the tree you have to platform up. I'm not at all for removing primes, but this is the one example I remember where a prime had to be dealt with to complete the quest. | |} ---- ---- I managed to reach the barrel from the other side, yes, but it wasn't easy. Keep in mind I only reached it after being very careful not to draw aggro from anyone else, and made sure to walk as far behind the barrel as I dared before reaching it. Even then, the Prime was somewhat aware of me, so I had to run before it decided to attack. That's far too close for my taste. I don't see why it's there in the first place. Also, as I said, this isn't a one-time thing. I've seen stuff like this several places. In fact, I found two other Primes in this area as well, all close enough to get them on the screen at the same time. Add in a whole lot of other enemies there, and you got a problem. My biggest issue with all this is that it makes exploring and questing annoying and somewhat boring. I don't like making some decent progress towards a quest-objective, only to suddenly find myself attacked by a prime I had no chance of seeing. This one was right next to the barrel in the open, but there is one standing close to a wall near a path. If I approach from inside the base, it's easy enough to see. But if I approach from the area I am right now or try to run over the small hill instead of following the path, there's no way to see the prime until ti's too late. This means it will start chasing me, and that means I will soon have a lot more enemies after me. On top of that, it's not even possible to run during combat in this game without going into slow-motion. All this makes areas like this very, very annoying to quest in. :( | |} ---- You're butting into something a lot of people, evidenced by this thread, actually LIKE about the game. You're supposed to be worried about aggroing them and sometimes split hairs to avoid their aggro. You're supposed to be looking around corners. You're supposed to make a mistake, roll into a prime, and have to make a snap decision about whether to run or fight. PVE isn't any fun if the environment is benign and the only thing you have to worry about are other packs of mobs. Primes make the area dangerous, make you plan ahead, force you to be aware of your location and situation. That's one of the things that's so great about Wildstar's leveling, the environment can and will kill you if you make a mistake or don't react fast enough. We love these things. In fact, it being just on the edge of the aggro radius means it's exactly where it needs to be. Times where I'm threading needles between primes and 5-man rares make the leveling experience exciting and tense. It's not like they aren't obvious, being painted red. Not to mention how fun they are to hit when you're duo leveling. I understand you don't like them, but they're very popular for a reason with most of the players for many of the reasons you don't like them. They jack up the difficulty, if just a bit (they are soloable by several builds from different classes and they are relatively simple to avoid). They're things that are intensely difficult to kill on your own, and nearly impossible if you're already fighting something. That's what we actually like about them; they make you include them in your game plan. They make you think, "Can I take this alone? Can I go around? Can I run through and escape? Where are they if I start combat? If I aggro one, where do I go?" These kinds of questions turn Wildstar leveling into more than simple, "Kill ten monkeys in this area, come back". Sometimes, those monkeys are exceptionally capable of killing you right back, and you have to make intelligent judgement calls. I can't say I've ever run across a prime that was literally blocking my progress anywhere. Some have been close, but you sometimes have to be smarter than the NPCs. Know your game plan and their aggro radius. And always, always, always be aware of your situation. Once you can, you look forward to seeing them. Areas without primes aren't as interesting. | |} ---- Your original post expressed that this objective was not possible to accomplish at level. | |} ---- ---- ---- Problem solved, problem staying solved, Rangers lead the way. | |} ---- No it sounds like she's complaining about Dazing instead of learning to deal with it. | |} ---- To be fair Psykins, I think what she means by going in slow-mo is that she is trying to sprint and when she gets hit it dazes her and slows her down. Dash, sprint, dash, sprint, if you've got melee mobs on you dash before you sprint. | |} ---- Perhaps, but like you both said, that's what you have dash tokens for! | |} ---- ---- Hi, I'm a casual. | |} ---- ---- Amazing. Should looking elsewhere not have been the first thing any reasonable person would do? | |} ---- Shouldn't trying to be helpful the first thing to do, as opposed to come up with this blame the player / LTP / it's commonsense to not go to the one point the quest marker tells you to go because it is the closest place and always marks you to go to the closest place. Oh and it would be nice if primes were more obvious without targetting them I played an action MMO where i didn't need to tab target and aim my abilities, for an action MMO to identify primes by clicking on them or tab targetting seems like old school. It would be nice if they had someone on their character to make them appear as a prime, again this is action MMO not tab target MMO shouldn't use old ideas/systems. To be honest I find primes lame, yes they can kill you but there is no incentive to kill them most of the time and they are just an inconvenience most of the time, the only time in any MMO I felt truly at risk was very early in BC with the fel reaver, because you could hear him coming, that being said after a week or so at 70 not so scary anymore:( | |} ---- How did you turn what I said into me agreeing? I was telling you how simple I found it when I was in a similar situation. As a way to help you. | |} ---- Yes what this game needs is less players because forum white knights want to suggest this game or this genre of games in general is not their cup of tea. Bashing companies, software etc etc is fair game bashing players it not. | |} ---- Didn't read all the pages in response, so not sure if this was asked in reference to the bolded xtx above, but what class are you rolling? There are abilities that allow you to draw in baddies (I assume all classes have some sort of way to do these things) and/or close gaps/silence/stun ranged mobs, especially while questing...as a Stalker I used to have this problem until I respc'd with some defensive/gap closing ab's for questing in the open world, and now ranged don't pwn me and it's actually pretty fun to take 'em all down. And also, stay out of the red stuff...once you figure it out it's pretty fun! In regards to the primes, I have had the same issue as you with them camping your quest objective...but I think this is W*'s way of trying to get players in the open world to help each other out; not saying it's the best design, but it def encourages players getting together. | |} ---- That only works when the player density is high enough to support it easily, though, which it almost never is in leveling zones of MMOs after the first few months. WoW went back and turned all of its group kills in leveling zones into solo kills just because of this. Right around launch if someone yelled for help with a group quest or needed someone to help boot a Prime out of the way, finding someone was easy. A month later in Malgrave there was someone yelling for twenty minutes trying to get help to kill the cyber-spider group thing without a reply so I had pity and went over and helped him out. He was very grateful. It's really not good planning to assume there will always be enough players in leveling zones to help each other out after the launch rush unless there's some mechanism to lure high-level players into leveling zones regularly -- or, at least, generous support for alts so that people who have capped on their main will be messing around in lower zones on their alts when not raiding. | |} ---- Primes have 2 interupt armors, she is level 16... being able to solo and interupt/stune a prime at lvl 16 would be quite an achievement with a very limited action bar and no ability to tier 4 skills... just saying. There was a related post on this for some of the lower level dungeons having poor interupt armor set ups considering the limited low level action bar and tiering of skills. | |} ---- I agree, was just saying that appears to be the reasoning behind it, but I could be wrong... If this game could just get tweaked/tuned up now, especially with all the data/feedback they have gotten since release, they could really polish it up and adjust for these things imo. | |} ---- Yep, my point was that I think the devs were planning on more ppl being out in the world questing, and they would jump in and help...but yes, it is a bit too NPC op to solo in it's current state; seems like something that could be fixed...pending the willingness/resources available to polish and adjust this game accordingly. | |} ---- I still try to inch my way in for situations like that, sometimes it's just a matter of finding the right place to click the quest interactive from while the prime is busy growling at you. plan B - call a friend (or hire someone) to decoy the prime while you finish your quest. Plan C- fight it anyway, some classes and builds can win against primes and group mobs "on level" with varying levels of difficulty. | |} ---- If there are multiple locations to find the items, the game puts a numbered marker with the same number on both locations. You can then also hover your mouse over the marker, and the map will outline the entire area you can do that quest. If she asked in zone chat, my first response would have been that she's looking in the wrong place. | |} ---- Just go to the other side and hop quickly up a leaf or two and he will de-aggro. So this one really is no issue. | |} ---- ---- Absolutely :) I think my gut response to things like trying to get around primes is that you must try first! There are usually work arounds to everything like the OPs issue, you just have to think it through. So what if you run up to the barrel and the prime spanks you? You learn to be a bit more careful next time and not just run and double jump right next to a prime :D As a side note, I am happy that this isn't easy, that you have to reason with the game, to figure puzzling quests. I don't care for games that I can just watch TV while I walk through quests, but that's me. | |} ---- ---- No. The problem is that some primes have white, unavoidable attacks. No matter how good you are, he just kills you with attacks w/out telegraphs. | |} ---- Yeah not all primes are create equal and some of them have high unavaoidable damage (not all but some). | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- +1 here! I level solo or with my equally crazy friend and we seek them out. Makes questing fun and challenging. Removing the primes would be ridiculous. So what if you die trying? Learn from it and try again. Make an engineer, break out the bruiser bot and see how many primes he aggros for you. You'll soon learn how to deal with them :D | |} ---- ---- Not all builds are created equal either. When fighting a Prime like that on one's own, it's a good idea to swap out some Damage abilities for Support. I think part of the problem is that a lot of people pick a build they like and expect to be able to deal with all content with the same build. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Oh the irony. But yea you are absolutely right. It never came to my mind that someone could actually complain about primes. And not just in one, but multiple topics. OP you should take advices from ppl who gave you those here. And there is a lot of helpful videos and writings about classes, builds and everything like that for beginners that you can easily easily find. | |} ---- ---- ---- re: the 5-mans a Spell Slinger can also solo them. I solo'd sentinel after I gave up looking for anyone to do it with. Was enjoyable. Just have to keep re-configuring your LAS until you get the right mix of self heals and snares. I'd also add that for the entire time I was leveling I never even noticed primes until I installed rare-tracker and realized how many were wandering around and then went hunting for them. Speaking only for myself I've no idea how someone can run into them to a degree that would inspire any kind of rage. And I'm a clothy so most of them would have meant certain death. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- 3 times ;) | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- That's a fair point. There's some schadenfreude involved with getting a group and curbstomping the prime that killed you solo. | |} ---- I'll at least agree with that. I resent white damage in our otherwise actiony game. | |} ---- I went through this exact progression, I have no problem admitting. Like I said earlier, at first I had mixed feelings about primes. Mostly I just disliked the red backlighting (I still don't like it, but they have to be marked somehow) and felt a few were too close to quest objectives. That one gronyx in Wilderrun near the elemental boss you have to kill for a quest was especially annoying until I figured out the aggro range of primes. That was then, this is now: | |} ---- ---- You aren't fighting a pack of five enemies. You're simultaneously fighting a pack of 3 and a pack of 2, which are designed to be taken separately. You should be down to half or a quarter health after fighting them. | |} ---- ---- ---- And to that I say -- fair enough. There should be some approach or clever use of terrain or tactics that does not force someone to singlehandedly fight a prime, especially at low levels (many primes are soloable at higher levels). However the answer isn't to remove them. The answer is to DOCUMENT and REPORT every instance where there's a prime that's blocking a quest objective. Maybe it wasn't put there originally. Maybe it leashed but didn't return to its home. Maybe there are MORE Pell staves but they aren't respawning correctly (e.g. spider eggs in CB sometimes don't respawn with triggerable actions and after N-billion players have gone through there that's plenty of chances for that bug to hit) giving the player another option to complete the quest that doesn't involve taking on el primerino. Carbine said in this very thread that primes were added after quest areas were designed and it was a tight fit in some places. Entirely possible their scripting is subpar as well or not well tested with the terrain. They should be fixed. /bug report is your friend. | |} ---- ---- I see you're an exile, and I can say with 100% certainty that I never ran into this situation while levelling up. Looks like Farside? I've completed every quest on Exile side in every zone. | |} ---- Agreed; there should always be ways to complete content without aggroing primes. However, it should probably also be noted that not all red auras were created equal. Some primes (including those that most quests point you toward) are barely more difficult than a normal quest mob, they simply have a bit more health, whereas other primes were designed for a small group. The red aura shouldn't immediately scare you away from testing the fight. If you turn health text on in your nameplate options, that will often be your first indication which type of prime it is. In general, the higher the health, the harder to solo. There are exceptions to that as well, because different primes do varying amounts of damage with their autoattacks. If you attack the mob to test how tough it is, as you're fighting, judge whether or not you think you can finish it off, and if the answer's no, then run away. Just remember to leave yourself enough health to survive a couple autoattacks as you're running. | |} ---- I never ran into this situation in 2.5 Exile 50's. (i.e. 2 50's and 1 27 :-) ) I'm sure it's an intermittent thing, either poor scripting, or poor quest target resetting, so it's not a faction specific thing. While playing I try to imagine how their quest creation works. If I were doing it, it'd probably be an XML file with tags for database objects for initator, tags for quest text from NPC, tags for quest text that shows up in the quest log, tags for database objects the quest functions on, probably tags for type of quest (kill, activate, etc), tags for completion. I think that's why you get different styles for quests that do essentially the same thing. Example: They'll Thank You Later and Picking up Samples (or something). Both of these quests have discrete activates, and there is a discrete number of activates required to complete the quest. Picking up Samples is recorded as a X out of 8 type of quest. They'll Thank You Later takes 10 activates however it is recorded as a percentage. I find that weird. However point is, the MESSY part of quest creation is likely that the quest creator and the props department is not the same person. So you have a quest guy writing a script for spider eggs in Crimson Badlands (Slash and Burn -- oh lord PLEASE fix this one). He targets database object "spider eggs" for teh quest, requires 10 of them burned. Props guy finds an egg prop, and creates a script for it to react to activation and a spawn time. There's got to be some sort of message passing system (the permutations on which are hideously large that I don't even speculate here) but that's where bugs are going to creep in. What if multiple people try to activate 1 second apart? 0.5 seconds apart? 0.1 seconds apart? 1 us apart? (at the server moment). What happens if this happens at the same time as the person completes the full quest? What if there's fighting on top of the object that interrupts the activation at the very end? How is all of this affected by connection latency between client and server? Tons of parameters. Mob scripting is likely the same way. All of these things that create quests, objects, enemies are layers upon layers of big and small utility systems. Anyway, I rambled and got off topic. Point is, report bugs. Primes block quest objectives are bugs, not a personal attack on your sanity. | |} ---- It's a Path Quest. So while technically an example of the issue in question, it does not in truth "block leveling" since there's more than enough Path xp out there to level cap and then some. | |} ---- ---- http://wildstar.mmorpg-life.com/path/demolition-banner-burning/ As for moving it, I don't disagree. I'm just saying it's not a progression blocker. | |} ---- ---- ---- I use used 3 skills to break his IA and stun then while he was swaying I got the flag. Then I Void Slipped to deaggro. Never came close to dying. Where there's a will there's a way. | |} ---- I vaguely remember that being a Soldier Path mission and to that I say "fair enough" you're a soldier, fighting primes is to be expected. If that's a task "fair enough" those award crummy XP and are totally optional. If that is a zone story quest then ya that's a reasonable issue and a bug report should be submitted. | |} ---- It's not being defensive to point out that it doesn't fit the criteria of the OP. It's a prime, it's in the wrong place, it will get fixed, but it's not a total roadblock to progress through the area. | |} ---- ---- ---- If we want to push semantics with the term "total roadblock," you can technically skip the entirety of PvE and still get to 50. If we want to be reasonable, assuming she was trying to progress specifically with leveling her path and the mission couldn't be completed, then it was indeed a roadblock to progression through the area. In this case, Rocio was resourceful and figured out how to complete it anyway, but it is still a valid example of what the OP was talking about. | |} ---- | |} ----